bob rubin held this job, direct access to bill clinton, larry lindsey, direct access to george bush. access is muted by valerie jarrett. it's kind of interesting, these are all economists. you have to ask them why the president keeps a buffer. valve jarrett i'm sure a smart woman, she's not an expert at economics or business. >> gretchen: one thing is clear, she's been around for the last five years and i guarantee you, she's probably not going anywhere. the other excuse gene sperling is giving is his wife is taking a job in los angeles. it's a big difference. do they burn out in these positions? >> yes. like i said, there is never one reason why someone takes a job or leaves a job. even though valerie jarrett mute their importance, they're still important. there is burnout. by the way, they want to make money, right? you make a lot more money in the private sector. why do people go into government? they like the power. all these guys like the power. i'm telling you, if we had them off the record, if we had rahm emanuel on the record, he would say he left not just to become the mayor